{"id":11735,"date":"2013-12-02T18:16:28","date_gmt":"2013-12-02T18:16:28","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/www.ch.imperial.ac.uk\/rzepa\/blog\/?p=11735"},"modified":"2013-12-02T18:16:28","modified_gmt":"2013-12-02T18:16:28","slug":"chemistry-data-round-tripping-has-there-been-any-progress","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.ch.ic.ac.uk\/rzepa\/blog\/?p=11735","title":{"rendered":"Chemistry data round-tripping. Has there been  ANY progress?"},"content":{"rendered":"<div class=\"kcite-section\" kcite-section-id=\"11735\">\n<p>This is one of those topics that seems to crop up every <a href=\"http:\/\/www.ch.imperial.ac.uk\/rzepa\/blog\/?p=2962\" target=\"_blank\">three years<\/a> or so. Since then, new versions of operating systems, new versions of programs, mobile devices and perhaps some progress?\u00a0<\/p>\n<p>Right, I will briefly recapitulate. Chemical structure diagrams are special; they contain chemical semantics (what an atom is, what a bond is, stereochemistry, charges, etc). One needs special programs to represent this. Take two well-known ones. ChemBioDraw V 13 is the latest in a long line dating back to 1985 or so. A newcomer is ChemDoodle, just updated to version 6. The idea is you express your molecule, and capture some of its semantics using one of these programs. And then paste the data into another veritable word processor, Word (also dating back to around 1984). Then send the Word document to a colleague. Who might want to copy the structure back out, and put it back into ChemBioDraw\/ChemDoodle. And put those semantics to good use, by editing it, or re-purposing the information. This is round-tripping the data. Its been almost 30 years, surely the process should be seamless by now? Wrong!<\/p>\n<p>One problem is that the &#8220;<em>exchange-particle<\/em>&#8221; is the clipboard, yet another ancient and presumed mature technology. Its invisible of course, we rarely get to see it. And very operating system specific! So what is the current state of play? Round tripping ChemBiodraw structures across a single operating system might work. Well, it currently does for just one of the two most common desktop operating systems (remember, Word is provided by the originator of one of these operating systems). The other program, ChemDoodle round trips within both operating systems.<\/p>\n<p>But, here is the key point, not across operating systems. Paste either a ChemBioDraw or a Chemdoodle structure into Word on one of these OS, and try re-editing that diagram on the version of Word on the other OS. The data is lost unless you have the &#8220;right&#8221; operating system.<\/p>\n<p>An experiment I have not tried, but regarding which I would welcome any feedback is to factor in the two newest operating systems, this time for mobile devices such as tablets and phones. Lets not even worry whether different flavours of one of these mobile OSs are compatible. Apps for drawing chemical structures are available for both of these. Here, the amazing clipboard still exists. One now has four OS to consider, and four homogenous permutations and a minimum of six heterogenous round trips the data could try to take for any given app. We do not even consider <em>app2app<\/em> transfers not involving discrete intermediate documents. I would predict that only a few of these permutations preserve round-tripped data and its semantics.<\/p>\n<p>Perhaps we need to look at it in a different way? One simply avoids putting data from one program into another. Chemical data is kept in its own files, never mixed with data from other programs, but always kept\/sent separately. Pre-1984 and the clipboard, this might have made sense. But in an era when XML was invented around 17 years ago to allow data to fully retain semantic information in any environment it finds itself in, it seems surprising that we still have this situation.<\/p>\n<p>I mention all of this, since there is a current refocusing on the importance of data; &#8220;<a href=\"http:\/\/www.rsc.org\/chemistryworld\/2013\/09\/open-repository-data-sharing-rzepa-figshare\" target=\"_blank\">emancipating data<\/a>&#8221; is now important. But the reality is that much current software destroys the semantics in data at almost every turn. Thirty years of no progress then. But what of <em>Chem4Word<\/em>, a combination of differently namespaced \u00a0XML in which the chemistry is expressed in CML (it is only available for a single operating system!). I will perhaps devote a separate post to that one; first I have to try a few experiments!<\/p>\n<!-- kcite active, but no citations found -->\n<\/div> <!-- kcite-section 11735 -->","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>This is one of those topics that seems to crop up every three years or so. Since then, new versions of operating systems, new versions of programs, mobile devices and perhaps some progress?\u00a0 Right, I will briefly recapitulate. Chemical structure diagrams are special; they contain chemical semantics (what an atom is, what a bond is, [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_jetpack_newsletter_access":"","_jetpack_dont_email_post_to_subs":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_tier_id":0,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paywalled_content":false,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"activitypub_content_warning":"","activitypub_content_visibility":"","activitypub_max_image_attachments":5,"activitypub_interaction_policy_quote":"anyone","activitypub_status":"","footnotes":"","jetpack_publicize_message":"","jetpack_publicize_feature_enabled":true,"jetpack_social_post_already_shared":true,"jetpack_social_options":{"image_generator_settings":{"template":"highway","default_image_id":0,"font":"","enabled":false},"version":2},"jetpack_post_was_ever_published":false},"categories":[2],"tags":[321,1159,728,325,1158,1157,526,1156,611,338,1160,1161,323,124],"ppma_author":[2661],"class_list":["post-11735","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-chemical-it","tag-chemical-data","tag-chemical-semantics","tag-chemical-structure-diagrams","tag-chemical-structures","tag-desktop-operating-systems","tag-mature-technology","tag-mobile-devices","tag-much-current-software","tag-operating-system","tag-operating-systems","tag-veritable-word-processor","tag-word","tag-word-processor","tag-xml"],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v27.7 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/product\/yoast-seo-wordpress\/ -->\n<title>Chemistry data round-tripping. Has there been ANY progress? - Henry Rzepa&#039;s Blog<\/title>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/www.ch.ic.ac.uk\/rzepa\/blog\/?p=11735\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_GB\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Chemistry data round-tripping. Has there been ANY progress? - Henry Rzepa&#039;s Blog\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"This is one of those topics that seems to crop up every three years or so. Since then, new versions of operating systems, new versions of programs, mobile devices and perhaps some progress?\u00a0 Right, I will briefly recapitulate. 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I posted earlier on the fragile nature of molecular diagrams making the journey between the editing program used to create them (say\u2026","rel":"","context":"In &quot;Chemical IT&quot;","block_context":{"text":"Chemical IT","link":"https:\/\/www.ch.ic.ac.uk\/rzepa\/blog\/?cat=2"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":2874,"url":"https:\/\/www.ch.ic.ac.uk\/rzepa\/blog\/?p=2874","url_meta":{"origin":11735,"position":1},"title":"Data-round-tripping: moving chemical data around.","author":"Henry Rzepa","date":"November 20, 2010","format":false,"excerpt":"For those of us who were around in 1985, an important chemical IT innovation occurred. We could acquire a computer which could be used to draw chemical structures in one application, and via a mysterious and mostly invisible entity called the clipboard, paste it into a word processor (it was\u2026","rel":"","context":"In &quot;Chemical IT&quot;","block_context":{"text":"Chemical IT","link":"https:\/\/www.ch.ic.ac.uk\/rzepa\/blog\/?cat=2"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":5312,"url":"https:\/\/www.ch.ic.ac.uk\/rzepa\/blog\/?p=5312","url_meta":{"origin":11735,"position":2},"title":"Blogbooks, e-books and future proofing chemical diagrams.","author":"Henry Rzepa","date":"October 31, 2011","format":false,"excerpt":"Most of the chemical structure diagrams in this blog originate from Chemdraw, which seems to have been around since the dawn of personal computers! I have tended to use this program to produce JPG bitmaps for the blog, writing them out in 4x magnification, so that they can be scaled\u2026","rel":"","context":"In &quot;Chemical IT&quot;","block_context":{"text":"Chemical IT","link":"https:\/\/www.ch.ic.ac.uk\/rzepa\/blog\/?cat=2"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.ch.imperial.ac.uk\/rzepa\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2011\/10\/taxol.jpg?resize=350%2C200","width":350,"height":200},"classes":[]},{"id":12728,"url":"https:\/\/www.ch.ic.ac.uk\/rzepa\/blog\/?p=12728","url_meta":{"origin":11735,"position":3},"title":"Data nightmares: B40 and counting its \u03c0-electrons","author":"Henry Rzepa","date":"July 19, 2014","format":false,"excerpt":"Whilst clusters of carbon atoms are well-known, my eye was caught by a recent article describing the detection of a cluster of boron atoms, B40 to be specific. My interest was in how the \u03c3 and \u03c0-electrons were partitioned. In a C40, one can reliably predict that each carbon would\u2026","rel":"","context":"In &quot;Chemical IT&quot;","block_context":{"text":"Chemical IT","link":"https:\/\/www.ch.ic.ac.uk\/rzepa\/blog\/?cat=2"},"img":{"alt_text":"B402","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.ch.ic.ac.uk\/rzepa\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2014\/07\/B402.jpg?resize=350%2C200","width":350,"height":200},"classes":[]},{"id":18318,"url":"https:\/\/www.ch.ic.ac.uk\/rzepa\/blog\/?p=18318","url_meta":{"origin":11735,"position":4},"title":"Conference report: OPEN SCIENCE AND THE CHEMISTRY LAB  OF THE FUTURE","author":"Henry Rzepa","date":"May 23, 2017","format":false,"excerpt":"This is taking place in the idyllic surroundings of the Niederwald forest, R\u00fcdesheim, Germany. Here I highlight only aspects of the first three talks. Martin Hicks introduced the conference with concepts such as the global public good. In the area of open access, he reminded us of the terms Platinum\/Diamond\u2026","rel":"","context":"In &quot;Chemical IT&quot;","block_context":{"text":"Chemical IT","link":"https:\/\/www.ch.ic.ac.uk\/rzepa\/blog\/?cat=2"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.ch.ic.ac.uk\/rzepa\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/05\/IMG_1672.jpg?resize=350%2C200","width":350,"height":200,"srcset":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.ch.ic.ac.uk\/rzepa\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/05\/IMG_1672.jpg?resize=350%2C200 1x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.ch.ic.ac.uk\/rzepa\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/05\/IMG_1672.jpg?resize=525%2C300 1.5x"},"classes":[]},{"id":83,"url":"https:\/\/www.ch.ic.ac.uk\/rzepa\/blog\/?p=83","url_meta":{"origin":11735,"position":5},"title":"On the importance of  Digital repositories in Chemistry","author":"Henry Rzepa","date":"April 3, 2009","format":false,"excerpt":"The preceeding blog entries contain stories about chemical behaviour. 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